tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post1403822353338870067..comments2023-11-02T04:23:00.400-06:00Comments on Cyclelicious: Bike lawyers on media and police biasYokota Fritzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04808661100114872654noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-51462571712132911062008-04-14T11:44:00.000-06:002008-04-14T11:44:00.000-06:00Re: "high rate of speed"It may be unreasonable, bu...Re: "high rate of speed"<BR/>It may be unreasonable, but not always wrong to blame the cyclist in some of these cases. Some municipalities have absurd laws on the books regarding bicycle operation. Albany NY has a bicycle speed limit of 8mph and requires cyclists to ring bells when approaching all intersections.Arthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16355078079362433260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-83713092030708361732008-04-12T14:52:00.000-06:002008-04-12T14:52:00.000-06:00Hayduke, this whole article that we are commenting...Hayduke, this whole article that we are commenting on is about media bias. You seem to say that an individual instance of media bias is "anecdotal" and therefore should be passed over. Maybe that isn't what you meant when you said "anecdotal impressions of police and media biases do no one any good," but that's how I took it.<BR/><BR/>I agree that the <I>accidents themselves</I> need to be investigated critically. But media reporting can often be shown to be biased with little need to refer to a police report. <BR/><BR/>And as someone who reads a whole lot of police reports, I can tell you that you can pretty quickly find bias in those, too. I'd be happy to show you some obvious examples of it.<BR/><BR/>EBRErik Ryberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947825393284168643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-583484598832071942008-04-12T09:41:00.000-06:002008-04-12T09:41:00.000-06:00The data, of course, come from police reports. The...The data, of course, come from police reports. There is no other source. If one is to insist at the outset that the data are skewed in some way by police bias, one must then find an independent data source.<BR/><BR/>Since there is none, we have to deal with the police data.<BR/><BR/>Notice in the original post that it is not the data that are questioned, but the interpretation of the data by newspaper reporter, bicycle advocates and the police themselves. If one reads the original articles dispassionately, it is clear that the data are not even examined; it is the interpretations of the data that are in question.<BR/><BR/>In some cases, "fault" is very clear, in other cases it is equivocal. But making conclusive statements, such as those in the bike lawyer article, does nothing to help either side of the issue.<BR/><BR/>We know that bicyclists engage in illegal and unsafe bicycling practices, just as we know that motorists fail to take bicyclists seriously on the roads.<BR/><BR/>Our task is not to cast stones at one another and shout that the other is to blame. Our task is ride safely and conscientiously on roads and paths, providing the example of responsible bicycle riding practice, while being an increasing presence on our roads and highways.Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-37371616967021137912008-04-12T01:15:00.000-06:002008-04-12T01:15:00.000-06:00"The only adequate response is fact-based informat..."The only adequate response is fact-based information, derived from real data."<BR/><BR/>Right but where would this data come from? What would it even look like? Should we ignore obvious bias because nobody has yet run a peer-reviewed statistical analysis on a given sample of all U.S. newspapers? <BR/><BR/>That doesn't make sense to me.<BR/><BR/>EBRErik Ryberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947825393284168643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-9550184807856208462008-04-11T08:54:00.000-06:002008-04-11T08:54:00.000-06:00Not at all.Anecdotal information goes both ways, f...Not at all.<BR/><BR/>Anecdotal information goes both ways, for us and against us. The only adequate response is fact-based information, derived from real data. <BR/><BR/>When the data clearly show that police and media respond to bicycle accidents in a patterned way, then we have a basis to demand redress.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise it's all guess and bluster.Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-86565746145509435352008-04-10T23:48:00.000-06:002008-04-10T23:48:00.000-06:00Hayduke, I have to disagree with your comment that...Hayduke, I have to disagree with your comment that:<BR/><BR/>"Anecdotal impressions of police and media biases do no one any good."<BR/><BR/>I always smart at that term "anecdotal." Anecdote is pretty much all most of us have (only God sees everything--the rest of us have anecdote), and just because something is an anecdote doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it is okay that it happened. When articles like the first one on the Cupertino incident come out, they need to be highlighted for their bias -- that's how we will reduce the bias.<BR/><BR/>Not to put too fine a point on Paul Tay's comment above, but imagine making your comment about lynchings during the Jim Crow era. I am sure you would not countenance calling those horrific incidents mere "anecdotes" and asking the victim's families and the public to dismiss them for that reason. <BR/><BR/>Luckily we bicyclists are not being lynched, but we are facing a bias that puts our safety at risk, and we owe it to ourselves to combat it.<BR/><BR/>I agree with your larger points, but it seems like you are almost asking bicyclists to "look the other way" at media bias.Erik Ryberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00947825393284168643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-54171331898330587032008-04-10T21:20:00.000-06:002008-04-10T21:20:00.000-06:00Just as with any incident, each bicycle accident m...Just as with any incident, each bicycle accident my be judged by the facts. Anecdotal impressions of police and media biasis do no one any good.<BR/><BR/>In the Cupertino case, the motorist was clearly at fault and should be subject to prosecution.<BR/><BR/>In the Santa Cruz case, as far as we know, the truck driver did nothing wrong. We don't know why the bicyclist was clipped by the truck, nor why he ended up under the trailer wheels.<BR/><BR/>We do know that the bicyclist was deaf and suffered from limited abilities due to a previous brain injury. It was probably not a good idea to have been riding a bicycle on Mission Street with limited abilities to cope with the press of traffic.<BR/><BR/>Does the City government have the obligation to make everything absolutely safe for every citizen? Is this even possible?<BR/><BR/>Do bicyclists have an obligation to provide for their own safety by making wise and informed decisions about road conditions and their own abilities?<BR/><BR/>Do motorists have an obligation to be aware of all traffic on the roads and make sure their action do not bring others to harm?<BR/><BR/>The mix of these rules, rights and obligations is how we are involved in our communities to make mobility as safe as possible for everyone.Michael A. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04980105313542633114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14852171.post-41591340241094035382008-04-10T12:56:00.000-06:002008-04-10T12:56:00.000-06:00Bicyclists: NIGGERS of the roadway.Bicyclists: NIGGERS of the roadway.Paul Tayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07385091044363493024noreply@blogger.com